Was Ricky Gervais's Golden Globes turn funny, or just mean? Is comedy getting too cruel? Comedians Steve Punt and Shappi Khorsandi debate what is a joke too far
Depending on your sensitivity level (and, more likely, your nationality) Ricky Gervais either bombed or did brilliantly when he hosted the Golden Globes last weekend. Meanwhile, some newspapers continued their campaign this week to have the controversial comedian Frankie Boyle purged from our screens for ever, and even suggested he has been snubbed by the British Comedy awards tonight. Are comedians really more offensive than ever? One of tonight's nominees, Shappi Khorsandi, and fellow comedian Steve Punt discuss new trends in comedy. But first, Emine Saner asks, why all the fuss about Gervais?
Steve Punt: The thing that seems odd is that America has this vituperative political culture where there are news channels, radio stations and websites devoted to all-out assaults on politicians, but if you make jokes about Hollywood actors, people throw their hands up in horror. I think he fell foul of that cultural entitlement thing that says Jewish comics can do Jewish jokes and if you're not Jewish, you can't. There was a sense that a British comedian can't come over here . . . British comedians are supposed to make ditzy observations about what's strange about America, but they're not supposed to insult A-listers. The jokes didn't seem any harsher than the ones Billy Crystal did at the Oscars, but Crystal isn't from Reading. It becomes a question of basic guest etiquette. If you go as a guest for dinner, you're not supposed to insult their wallpaper.
Shappi Khorsandi: They knew who they were getting. He wasn't criticising average, minimum-wage, nine-to-fivers, he was making jokes about the most privileged people. Having made it in America, he could have so easily fallen into the trap of not being funny any more, going: "This is glorious, I'm one of them now." He rattled his own cage. He played to a TV audience, which was the right thing to do. His job is to be himself, and he's in a room full of people whose job is to inhabit other people. I felt quite proud of the Britishness of it.
SP: An audience has an in-built fairness mechanism and every joke is judged as to whether or not the target is fair. Generally speaking, when the target is a rich Hollywood actor, who is protected by layers of PR people, and they have courted the publicity, most would say it's fair enough. Where people go instantly the other way is when those who are attacked are on a reality show, or a member of the public who has drifted into the news by mistake.
Emine Saner: The difference between making a joke about Jordan or a joke about her son? [Boyle is being investigated by Ofcom for making a joke about Jordan's disabled son.]
SK: That's exactly the kind of joke I would do. [Laughs]
SP: Jordan plays this game with the media all the time, her whole life is a PR construct. The moment you bring in a child who is not a consenting part of that, it immediately changes the joke.
SK: I've always been one for saying comics can say whatever they like, but I think his audience let it be known what they thought of that joke. It wasn't so much designed to make you laugh or be shocked, it was like someone putting shit through your letterbox. But then you see Boyle on Never Mind the Buzzcocks and he's really funny and clever. It's up to him if he wants to do certain things that will lose him his own fans.
ES: Does that mean there are things that are off-limits in comedy?
SK: They're only off-limits for yourself. If you don't want to be the sort of comic who gets criticised for doing horrible jokes about children, then don't do them. I don't like jokes that are aimed at the way someone looks.
SP: Comedy is about context and about the detail of the joke ? how it's phrased. Some comics can get away with doing tough material because of the way they deliver it. You can't lay down rules about it, because every joke is different.
SK: I think of jokes that I can't say because they don't suit me, and the people who like me won't like those words coming out of my mouth. For example, when I was pregnant, I was writing jokes about the worries you have about the health of your child ? if I did have a child who was not ? See, I can't even ? When you write, you don't censor yourself, but you choose what to say out loud to an audience. I did a joke some years ago: "A lot of Americans don't know the difference between Iran and Iraq. We're the ones with the weapons of mass destruction." The criticism I got from the Iranian community almost crushed me. I do stuff about my divorce and although I have run them all past my ex-husband, people who don't know that see it and go, "What a bitch". I'm not a nun, I'm a comic.
ES: Is comedy getting crueller?
SP: Comedy is just a part of the generally raised level of cruelty in the media. Comedians get a lot of stick but there are newspaper columnists who are just as cruel. But then the comics that people are flocking to see are the ones who make them laugh. The two biggest comics in Britain are Peter Kay and Michael McIntyre, neither of whom are controversial. There is a level of cruelty most people will put up with, but only so much. I don't think it's just comedy that has become more unkind. If you were to look at a newspaper from 20 years ago, you'd find how much less personal writing about celebrities was.
SK: It's difficult to know whether the comic is feeding audience [desire for] cruelty, or steering it.
ES: There is a lot of sensitivity about what is offensive and what isn't ? there is the BBC compliance unit, which now checks everything after the Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross incident, and this week there has been pressure on Channel 4 from some sections of the press not to recommission Boyle's show.
SP: Television is driven by viewing figures. If really offensive comedy pulled huge audiences, they would continue to make it. The fact is, it doesn't; it pulls huge column inches and debate, but the shows people watch are Harry Hill and Michael McIntyre's Roadshow. What is comedy for? Is it designed to make you rush to the phone and dial Channel 4 in disgust, or designed to make you laugh? You don't want comedy to be bland and safe, but there's no reason why inoffensive should be bland. I think what baffles comics is the apparently random way in which a joke from a show full of similar jokes seems to jump out and take on a life of its own. A lot of stuff goes under the radar and things only surface because someone has noticed it. There will be an enormous fuss about one joke on Mock the Week, and I think: "Have you ever seen an episode of South Park?" There are some things that never reach an offensiveness tipping point where it becomes a story.
SK: I deeply resent any influence that newspapers might have over comedy commissions, especially from papers whose columnists write the most nasty bile. I find that influence offensive.
Steve Punt is on tour with Hugh Dennis across the UK until 12 March. Shappi is nominated in the best female comic category at tonight's British Comedy Awards (Channel 4, 9pm). An Evening With Shappi Khorsandi will be touring the UK from 7 February.
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/22/cruel-comedy-gervais-golden-globes
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